BOOK CLUB/DAY ONE
Welcome to the book club! I never thought we’d get here. I hope everyone has read chapter one. If not, get movin’!
I think the first thing that struck me was this paragraph:
Tragically, many Christians grow up thinking of their bodies (especially their sexuality) as inherent obstacles to the spiritual life. Many think Christian teaching considers their spirits to be “good” and their bodies to be “bad”. Such thinking couldn’t be further from an authentic Christian perspective! The idea that the human body is “bad” is actually a heresy (a blatant error explicitly condemned by the Church) known as Manichaeism.
How true is that. From toilet training to puberty we’re told that “those parts” are private. We’re not supposed to touch them or talk about them in public. While I think the real reason this happens is that we are protecting something very special, what actually happens is that we get the message that our bodies are “icky”.
What a shame, since this couldn’t be farther from the truth. If only we could get the message across that we don’t parade our bodies in public, NOT because they are bad, but because they are so precious, so priceless, that we must protect their dignity at all costs.
The problem with our sex saturated culture then, is not that it overvalues the body and sex. The problem is that it has failed to see just how valuable the body and sex really are.
We see God in so many physical ways. Sunsets, babies, dragonflies…but the body, the human body, remains the greatest example of God expressed in a physical way. I remember the first time I read this book, I stopped and looked at my hand. For whatever reason, it fascinated me. I’d never really thought about it before. What a tremendous thing, this 5 fingered “thing”. Just by “thinking”, I can pick up a coin, snap my fingers, stroke my son’s forehead. I desire it, and my body accommodates that desire. It’s like a mini miracle. Or maybe not so mini.
Or how about our eyes? Incredible. There is a whole physical world out there, and I can see it because of two round orbs sitting in my face. Or my ears. Strange looking sea shells on the side of my head that allow me to hear the baby cry in the middle of the night, the kettle boiling for tea, or the owl at midnight…
So now, I’d like you to tell me the parts of your body that fascinate you, and why.
And feel free to tell me any experiences that you have had, either positive or negative, that have colored you view of the body.
If you haven’t yet gotten your book, you can order it here:
Theology Of The Body For Beginners
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As a mother I am fascinated at the ability of a woman’s body to nurture her children. A uterus that not only shelters and protects, but sustains the very life developing inside of it. The swelling of both the belly and the breasts as the baby grows, both ultimately providing absolutely everything the child needs in the way of nourishment. The way a mother must take her born child into her arms and draw her/him in, heart to heart, in order to nurse, providing not only sustenance, but intimacy, security and warmth.
The design of our bodies is nothing short of brlliant (random selection, hah!) and when we ponder on how this design, complementarly expressed in our sexual difference, reflects our Creator, we can truly begin to understand the reality of “God is love”.
By the way MK, thank you for hosting this discussion. I’m really looking forwad to learning about other people’s pespective on this beautiful teaching.
Oh Dee, you’re so very welcome. I’m excited too. Although it might only be you and me…lol.
Yes, the body is so beautiful. The eyes, the ears, etc…but when you get to the parts that make us male and female, the whole ball of wax just gets to big to comprehend.
Our gerbil just gave birth to four little ones. It has been so amazing watching them go from hairless, blind little things, to tiny, hairy, miniatures of mom and dad.
I have been taking Jeff Cavin’s Timeline bible study.
We have been discussing the fall of Adam and Eve. Original sin. We were meant to be without sin. That was how God created us. In His image. We were given the perfect ability to tell right from wrong.
We lost this innate gift when we fell in the garden of Eden. Baptism gives us a chance to get it back, but it will always be a struggle.
One of the consequences of the fall was that the beasts of the earth became afraid of us. Jeff Cavin’s (on the video) said that every time he sees an animal shy away from him, he is reminded of how very far we fell. So far, that even the animals recognize it and don’t trust us.
It’s funny how the farther we get from God the more like the beasts we become, and we no longer trust each other, the same way the beasts don’t trust us…
“It’s funny how the farther we get from God the more like the beasts we become, and we no longer trust each other, the same way the beasts don’t trust us…”
That was so important, it had to be said again!
The farther from God we get, the farther away from each other we get - And that includes our children! We need to remember our bodies are temples - to be respected, not used as a plaything.
What a whopper of a first question! LOL. I know there’s no “right” answer, but I’m still thinking. I won’t read anyone else’s responses and I’ll get back to you on this one!
Oops, I forgot my name above. It’s me.
One thing that always blows me away is a beautiful singing voice.
How do the vocal cords, diaphragm, lungs, mouth, and brain all work together to produce such wonderful sounds? The ability to sing is truly a gift from God. I think of Josh Groban whose voice is heavenly to me…
I just read everyone’s comments on animals. Very interesting. I’ve always been taught that when you approach an animal that doesn’t know you, you should act like you are not afraid of them (even if you are). They can sense that in a person.
If only people could be so open to each other. I have a new-found sense of appreciation for animals thanks to you all.
Janet -
I’ve spent almost 10 years of my life working with animals (mostly dogs, cats and llama’s) and I can tell you that they don’t really “sense” anything. They are experts at reading body language. That is how they talk to each other. I’ve learned the hard way that even if you “act” like you are not afraid they will still know you are because there is no way anyone can remove fear from their body language when that is what they feel.
It is a facsinating subject for me. Sometimes I wish we weren’t so good at “acting” and could actually see what animals see in body language. It would make life much easier. I think this is why God seems to want us to be the animal’s caretakers - they can be the greatest teachers when it comes to the basic emotions.
Sometimes I’d rather be with my dogs than with people! They are so honest, it is refreshing!
I agree with Dee about the beauty of a woman’s body and the amazing things that she is able to do with it. I think one of the two greatest things anyone can do with their life is be a mother. Being a father is wonderful, but there is an intimate bond that exists between mother and child by the very nature that the child was brought into this world that is just so special and can never be replicated.
The other greatest thing that anyone can do goes back to what MK said about hands, and that is being a priest. Talk about a fascinating body part- the hands of an ordained priest are what hold the body blood soul and divinity of our LORD as it transubstatiates. His hands become sacred. The story of St Francis of Assisi where he kisses the hands of the fornicating priest really brings into perspective the sacredness of the hands of a priest. So I’m going to go with the hands of a validly ordained priest.
Man, where’s Jess?
Oh Bobby, yeah. We had a priest a few years ago and he had the most beautiful hands. I was mesmerized by them and would find myself watching them throughout the whole Mass. All of the gestures and prayer postures, it was like watching a beautiful ballerina perfoming a perfectly orchestrated dance. I actually once told him he had beautiful hands but I don’t think he understood and just got all flustered, even when I tried to explain.
MK, I did the introduction to the Bible Time Line a hundred years ago (okay, maybe it was really like 6 years ago) with Jeff Cavins and Tim Gray. It was really great, but I don’t remember them saying anything about the animals. That’s really interesting.
And while it’s true that we can never reclaim the original innocence that Adam and Eve experienced in the garden, because of Christ’s gift of redemption we can, through Baptism and the frequent reception of the sacraments of Reconciliation and Eucharist, receive the graces necessary to live in purity, and thus reclaim our virginal value. What an amazing gift God has given us. I want to scream it from the mountain tops, and yet when I talk about it, I sometimes find that people are looking at me like I have 3 heads or something.
DeeL,
Lol…I’ve flustered my own priest more times than I can count.
Val, I agree reading “BODY” language would be great. Which is actually very astute when you think about it. This whole book is about the language of the body. And how that language is theological. How it speaks to other people both on the physical level as well as the mystical.
So we really need to learn how to read the material language of the body, AND the spiritual language of the body.
Before my conversion, I used to call that sort of other worldly connection that you sometimes have with people “Soul Dancing”. Not like on soul train, but like two people’s souls dancing. Now that I’m home again, I realize how very profound that was even tho I didn’t understand it at the time.
I also read somewhere (don’t ask me where) that when any two people bond physical in the act of “making love”, there souls unite on the spiritual plane permanently. There is a mystical bond that forms even if the people don’t continue to have a relationship. So people that have multiple partners have bonded spiritually with multiple souls. This would take quite a toll, I would assume, on ones soul, as that bond is so powerful. No wonder we’re so screwed up (pardon the pun).
Bobby, yes, a priest’s hands. Beautiful. Do you remember the 4,000 comment post at Jill’s? And how Bethany pulled up one of the saints (maybe a church father?) saying that we “become God” and she was so freaked out?
Well, I asked the priest why they add water to the wine. He told me that the wine was Jesus’ blood and represented divinity. The water was us, and represented humanity. Only a small amount of water is used. The water is mixed in with the wine (we are mixed in with Jesus) and become so much a part of the wine that you can’t tell which is Him and which is us. So in a sense we DO become “Jesus”. Not that we become “God”, not part of the Trinity, but part of the “BODY” of Christ.
Wish I had known that during the long post…probably wouldn’t have helped tho.
DeeL,
I know what you mean. I just want to stop people on the street!
Another thing he said, that I found to be a “WOW” moment, was that after they ate from the tree of good and evil, God placed flaming swords around the tree of “LIFE”. He did this because if Adam and Eve (or anyone) ever ate from this tree, they would live forever. But because of their fall, they would have been trapped forever in their sinful state. So He did it to protect them/us. We will all get to eat from that tree at the end of ‘time”. Then we will live forever, but in the state we were first created. Pure, without sin.
All I have done is reply - I haven’t answered the question. hmmm..It is a really difficult first question!
I would have to say the heart is the most facsinating to me. Some people can shut the heart off and go through life without it, but they seem so lonely to me. One of the biggest problems we have with sexuality today is the removal of our heart when it comes to sex or any kind of personal unity. Sex isn’t supposed to be animalistic - we are above that. It is supposed to be bring the two people into one - and you need your heart for that. And you can’t even have quality friendship.
The heart, to me, is the most vulnerable part of the human body. I think that is why MK is the best person to host this bookclub! Her heart is bigger than any room I’ve ever been it!
Oh Valerie, you flatterer you. Okay, what do you want? Money? My left leg?
My heart may be big, but unfortunately, so is my mouth!
Okay, so Janet loves the human voice, Bobby, the hands of a priest, Val, the human heart and DeeL loves a woman’s body and the way it can nurture and protect new life.
Wow!
Think about it. Angels have those beautiful voices. Jesus is the sacred heart and Mary the Immaculate heart. A priests hands offer up the ultimate sacrifice on our behalf. And a woman’s body carries new life, life itself being the Holy Spirit, which animates all living things.
I think we just described heaven. That concludes our discussion. Which book should we do next?
Okay, only kidding, but really, what a beautiful reflection on the Theology of our bodies! Great Job!
Anyone else want to weigh in?
Yes, I could never forget that, MK. Unfortunately I didn’t handle it that well, and I think the whole thing really upset Bethany. I still wish I understood it better. But yes, I believe when the priest does that, he says under his breath “By the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled himself to share in our humanity.” I was an alter boy many years ago, so it’s not clear to me whether the priest used to say it back in the early 90s and now doesn’t or whether he has always said it but it’s under his breath.
Bobby,
Yes, that’s what Father Rob said they say. I think he used the word “mingled”…
The whole idea is so beautiful. I just love our Church. I wish Bethany could have seen it the way we do. She would LOVE the Church if she could just look at it through new eyes.
I’ve always said that if there was anybody that would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Eucharist, it was Bethany.
I haven’t said what my favorite part of the body is. I think I’d have to say the mind. It’s so unfathomable. It reminds me of God. You can see the results of using it, but can’t even begin to comprehend it. There’s the brain, and the mind. Intelligence and Wisdom. The whole thing just floors me. Like Outer Space or the Ocean. Just toooooooo big to “get”…you know?
This whole “different parts” reminds me that each of us is a part of a whole, the Church, and we each have a different role to play. Some of us are hands, some hearts, some minds…all are needed, none are more important. Like when Paul(?) talks about the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit. We each have something that makes us special and invaluable to the entire “body” of Christ.
Why did no one answer the first question?
The part of the body that I like to consider is the face. The face tells alot about a person. Since I meet so many people in my line of work, I rely alot on a person’s face. There’s the eyes, the mouth, the smile - all can tell me how this person is doing today. Sometimes when I see the street people in the library I see a face without teeth, wrinkled and grizzled. I remind myself that this person needs always to be treated with dignity. Maybe even a little more than the average bloke who comes into the library.
“By the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled himself to share in our humanity.”
this use to be said out loud but quietly. Does that make any sense?
MK -
What happened at the 4,000 post? I’m very confused. At least I’m in familiar territory!
Patricia - you are so right about the face! I love looking at faces, especially the elderly. They have so much history to them. I feel so bad for the people who try everything they can to get rid of their wrinkles to try to look younger. They worked hard for those wrinkles and should wear them with pride!
I do respect the people who look to have had a harder like than most - Normally when I see a person like you described “without teeth, wrinkled and grizzled” I immediate look into their eyes. I don’t know why, but the harsher the face, the greater the eyes.
I forgot all about the eyes….maybe I should switch my answer. I love eyes! Aren’t there some sayings out there that the eyes are the pathway to the soul?
I remember when Mother Teresa died. Princess Di also died that week. Most magazines put Princess Di on the cover of that months/weeks issue. But a few used Mother Teresa.
I was struck at how the world kept talking about how beautiful Princess Di was. But I thought she was rather ordinary.
However, when I looked at Mother Teresas’ photo…ahhh, now that woman was BEAUTIFUL!
Given the choice, I’d rather look like Mother Teresa any day. And I’d certainly rather be like her.
Patricia,
Why did no one answer the first question?
Did you mean the second question? Because everyone answered the first. We have the voice, the heart, the woman’s body, priest’s hands and the brain…and you said eyes.
But you’re right, no one answered the second question.
Anyone? Any experiences, negative or postive, while growing up that colored your view of the human body?
Actually, I rather liked Princess Di. I always thought that if Prince Charles had treated her better in the marriage she would never have been in that car in the tunnel that night in Paris. Life would have been very different.
It was Mother Teresa’s eyes that shone the light of God.
MK -
Mother Teresa was such a humble woman, she would never have approved of herself being on the cover of every magazine.
I found it all poetic. Princess Di was Mother Teresa’s biggest supporter and we often saw them together (weren’t they on a stamp together?). Princess Di was also a big contributor to multiple organizations. Something tells me that Mother Teresa didn’t mind sharing the “spotlight” with her. I think she may have approved of it. Princess di was kind of the “face” for donating to good causes and helping the poor.
I always thought that God took Mother Teresa when he did so she wouldn’t have to be on the all the covers, but she was on enough covers for us to connect the dots.
I have to be honest - I’m not sure I truly understand the second questions. Outside of a lifetime of looking at people’s hearts and eyes, I’m not sure I can narrow anything down to one or two experiences.
I always thought that God took Mother Teresa when he did so she wouldn’t have to be on the all the covers, but she was on enough covers for us to connect the dots.
That’s a great observation. She died on my birthday and I feel very blessed for that. My brother and mother and father have all met her and received blessed medals from her. Pretty cool!
“If only we could get the message across that we don’t parade our bodies in public, NOT because they are bad, but because they are so precious, so priceless, that we must protect their dignity at all costs.”
I didn’t get to read all the comments so I don’t know if I’m the first to ask but what is parading your body around? In some places the naked body is a usual sight, such as in tropical villages, beaches in warm weather, women breast feeding, etc… Sometimes I run in shorts and a sports bra, not to attract attention but because it’s more comfortable in hot, humid weather. Too many people today just see a body and think “sex”. Bodies aren’t designed only for sex, sex is just a small part of a bodies function. Take the female body, think of how a woman has sex and then think of the after, being pregnant, giving birth, feeding your child and so on. Society needs to calm down.
Oh Jess,
You sound more and more like us every day! This is EXACTLY right. I answered your question more thoroughly on the newest book club thread.
I am just like you guys mk, only with poor impulse control : )
I love you Jess.
I love you too mk : ) Thanks for showing me this site, it’s wonderful!
Awww…thanks for coming. I mean that.
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