the cape: There were two components to my post.

And neither one of them had anything to do with capital punishment.

the cape: Killing terrorist in jail, when they are being used as a reason to murder people to free them.

I addressed this by saying that this has nothing to do with capital punishment. It has everything to do with war tactics. Killing the prisoner could also result in retaliation killings. We cannot control what others do. IF this were true, and lives were being taken because we were holding a prisoner, it might be morally acceptable to kill the prisoner. I don’t know. But that is not the scenario that was in the post.

the cape: Taking Communion and knowing your going to commit a sin to stop the murder of innocent humans.

I already stated that killing in a just war is NOT a sin.

There. Wasn’t that easy. If only you had spoken so clearly three days ago…

It’s not that your points aren’t valid. It’s that you veil them in such obscure clothing that no one knows what you’re trying to say.

We posted the catechism, which says that it is VERY RARE that a criminal must be put to death to avoid more deaths. Then you come up with a VERY RARE scenario, and start accusing us of being bad Catholics, Unforgiving, and God knows what else, when we had already addressed the issue of VERY RARE circumstances.

Capital punishment is allowed SOMETIMES. If it is allowed it is NOT a sin. No need for confession, no need for 2 days worth of convoluted,cryptic caterwauling.

I still love you.

There were two components to my post.

Killing terrorist in jail, when they are being used as a reason to murder people to free them.
Taking Communion and knowing your going to commit a sin to stop the murder of innocent humans.

I brought it all home to you in one post.

As for Obama, he’s giving KSM a world platforn that will incite his fellow Jihadist to commit acts of murdering innocent humans to get him freed.
He thinks like you and PIP, and others that actually think you can’t break the will of anybody that opposes you by eliminating their leaders by swift execution for their murderous war crimes they self admit to.

Me and Obama. Like two peas in a pod.

Honestly, I have no idea what you’re talking about anymore.

How we got from executing criminals to me and Obama being best friends is beyond me, but I’m sure it all makes sense to you…

Too tired for this now. Maybe some other time.

In the actual case I posted, which was about the Badder Meinhoff gang and thier allies in terror, the RAF, the suicide of their leaders STOPPED THE MURDER.

And your about to find out that you agree with Obama and his vision of having a show trial
is going to get innocent life’s killed. Maybe not in the USA, but somewhere in the world, his jihadist are going to murder for their release.

Have you noticed there are no prisoners being taken in the war on terror in anymore?

The’re are being shot down armed or unarmed, and you can bet we’re hiring assasination agents to eliminate terrorist who are doing nothing at the time they were murdered.
You can bet that bombs are being dropped on houses where innocent human beings are located with the “criminal”.

You don’t know how many times the people whu demand the release of their compatriots are assassinated, and the news doesn’t know that story. But, like you, you have a ally in Obama in rooting out those agents and have no mercy on them.

Just as you had no mercy on me.

Helen: Cape, you can’t confess a sin you aren’t sorry for. It doesn’t work that way. If it did, I would have IVF…but I know I wouldn’t be sorry, so I would be stuck with a sin on my soul that I would be unrepentent of….You can’t plan to sin and plan to be sorry.

Exactly.. God already knows what you are sorry for and what you arent…

Cape,

If you would like to say that you agree that capital punishment (which is what we were talking about) is wrong according to the Catholic Church and then say that you are curious how we feel about situations that are more complicated like wars and Hitlers, then just say that. Why all the nonsense about “blaming the sinner” and “bein’ a puritan”…waste of my time, and actually yours.

The very first post I put up said that the Pope himself did not openly denounce Hitler because it ended up in more deaths.

But we were NOT talking about war times, we were talking about CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

When you can stop a person from doing harm by simply jailing them then you do not NEED to kill them. But the church DOES allow for killing in rare circumstances when that is the ONLY way to avoid more deaths. What part of this is confusing you…????

I will ask one more time, one and only one…

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU KILL THE MURDERER AND HIS BUDDIES KILL PEOPLE IN RETALIATION?????

I don’t know why you keep avoiding that question.

This whole aggrivating conversation could have been avoided if only you would be clear about what you are trying to say. You changed topics and forgot to notify the rest of us.

Capital punishment….strategies of war….capital punishment….strategies of war.

The man that was put to death two nights ago posed a threat to NO ONE. His death was UNNECESSARY. The scenario you are describing is completely different. If you kill a man to stop him from killing other because there was NO OTHER CHOICE it is not a sin….by my standards OR the Catholic Churches….

the cape: I went to confession, and you even denied my confession which spelled out my sin exactly.

Cape, you can’t confess a sin you aren’t sorry for. It doesn’t work that way. If it did, I would have IVF…but I know I wouldn’t be sorry, so I would be stuck with a sin on my soul that I would be unrepentent of….You can’t plan to sin and plan to be sorry.

I’m very happy that you said those things about tough moral decisions. Unlike MK though, my ‘morality’ is not principle-based but Jesus-based. Since I live IN Him, my moral take is a consensus between Jesus, His Church (very extensive. Direction given in confession is most-often super.), and me. [MK's is very much this way too ... Her profound reasoning is always sound. It also is why she is so sensitive - a very superb SISTER!]

Making ANY moral decision is never a solitary endeavor as you would surmise with thoughts of independence, free-will, pride all readily available.

A very simple/and-profound way to deal wih involved ‘moral dilemmas’ is to ask a simple: ‘And what would Jesus do?’ Following this simple rule is most-often simple. But I will admit that like the Crucifixion it CAN be very difficult.

Many of Rome’s earliest Christian martyrs were (justifiably) killed because the non-Christians understood that this cult drank baby’s blood. They deduced this from our drinking Christ-INNOCENCE blood during a eucharistic celebration. Reprise was not (and never has been) sanctioned. We do-not ever go-to-hell to win heaven.(sacrifice ourselves in order to gain heaven) …. try: a bank manager who is asked to rob his own branch, under threat of death to his kids. Moral problems galore are here.

You didn’t read the facts of the Badder Meinhoff history and their associates,RAF/Jihadist, murdering people to get the release of their compatriots.
It’s history. The suicide of their leaders stopped the murder.

It is you that insulted the valor and honor of a soldier’s recounting of his taking on a sin to stop the murder. He tryed God, and confession, and you defined God to him, and his confession too. Good for you. Yet, you ain’t winning any converts to your Puritan form of Catholicism that is being stressed in these times.

At least in matters of numbers dropping more and more beginning in the 20th century, or faithful Catholic men . Men have abandoned their Catholicism and fled a church that became a adversary to their experiences and ethics they faced in war.

That you defend yourself with some remark about not being born during WW2 is not what my statement was about. Of course you weren’t born during or before WW2. My statement was about the history before you were born. It was a explaination of the drop off of Catholic men going to church.

I asked Val why men would take Communion, and defended the act of stopping the murder of innocent humans by taking on the sin of murder by suicide. They are connected, and you will always fail to see that connection from being who you are.

It’s a world that you are incapable of understanding.
When you were growing up, there were former Catholic men who hid their sins from you.
After all, telling a kid their sins would be met with that self sure Puritan Catholicism they got from their priest. Why, denied their contrition is a sure way to keep a member of their church going back for more insults to their sins and honor.

Or, read my reply to John and see what you are doing to those that sinned to stop terrorist then and now.

As for the death penality.
I jumped out of the block and gave my opinon of letting them do themselves in. Or not. It’s his freewill.

My Dad’s name was Unus-Ian because this was a Scottish-Gaelic name. Translated into English, he was Angus-John. Angus’ are often called ‘Gus’, but that was a no-no for Dad! He was forever mad about being called: Unus.

It came as a shock when I told him the word was not Gaelic, but Latin. In that language ‘unus’ means ‘one’. So the name was the Roman’s way of calling a clan ‘chief’ … ie. ‘the one’.

My Dad felt much relief about that tidbit!