I told you about this case on May 4. It is a teacher who hates religion so much that he forces all people of faith to feel as if they are second class citizens in his classroom. One brave student began to tape the lectures, first as an aide for note taken, then to document that hate filled lectures that this High School history teacher spewed.
From the tapes:
· “When you put your Jesus glasses on you can’t see the truth”
· “People in the industrial world lease likely to go to Church are the Swedes. The people in the Industrial world more likely to go to Church are the Americans. America has the highest crime rate of all industrial nations and Sweden the lowest. The next time someone tells you that religion is connected to morality, you might want to ask them about that.”
· He called the Boy Scouts of America racist
· He cracked a joke about a Viagra…etc…and that a side effect is deafness – he somehow felt the need to put this together and say: “So if you run into someone who is, you know, deaf and whose pants felt stiff, he’s probably using the drug…..they’re happy but they’re deaf.”
· He had a very long discussion about birth control pills for middle school students and called parent who object to this irresponsible.
· He accused all religious people of “controlling women” because they don’t believe in abortion. And implied that the religious do not care about the health of women because of this.
· He called Rush Limbaugh a “fat, pain in the ass, liar”. And compared the people living in the south to the peasants (Serf’s) in the 1700’s. (He talked about how Joseph II wanted to “free” the serf’s but they wouldn’t allow it because Joseph II wanted to reform religion. He makes these people out to be fools because of this. He neglected to mention that Joseph II wanted to make the Catholic Church a tool for the state and that he considered himself the “guardian of Catholicism.” He made Joseph II out to be a hero yet also neglected to mention that he wouldn’t allow clergy to be paid and forced them into seminaries under the watchful eye of the government. He also forced Bishops to pledge allegiance to him – among many other things.)
· He made pot smoking out to be something natural that everyone does while complaining that it is illegal. He also glorified Sweden for only allowing people to be in jail for 10 years maximum for any crime – this includes gunning down a kindergarten class (his analogy, not mine)
· He essentially claimed that all religious area’s (particularly the south) had the highest crime, murder and rape rates.
· When you pray for divine intervention, you’re hoping that the spaghetti monster will help you get what you want
· (religion was) invented when the first con man met the first fool
· (creationism is) religious, superstitious nonsense
The only statement that the Judge said was violating anyone’s rights was the one where he said creationism is superstitious nonsense. However, the Judge saw no problems with the others and found them appropriate in a high school history class. Only in California!
Both sides have appealed. Both sides are getting their attorney’s pro bono. (Mr. Corbett’s attorney’s have actually been paid by the state and the teacher’s unions. However the last two attorneys he hired are working pro bono.) Mr. Corbett is trying to claim that his statments were taken out of context. Um, exactly how could talking about teen aged birth control, Viagra and pot be taken out of context when they are completely inappropriate topics for a history teacher.
Some of his statements can be seen in the official complaint here. This complaint had the tapes to back up what he said and in the context in which he said them.
How many people doubt that if this was a teacher that believed in religion and had said some of the same kinds of things about atheism that they would still be in court and not harassed by the media?
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Val-
Given things I’ve heard my own teachers or professors say, on both sides of the political aisle, I can absolutely believe they were taken out of context of what was going on in the class. Students of all ages try and get their teachers and professors off on tangents, and the more ridiculous the claim, typically the easier it is to make that happen. In fact, I’ve had professors say outright they will not allow audio taping of their classes for that very reason, as they may use faults of the college as examples, or jokingly use admin as an example, put forth a controversial idea to generate or continue discussion, etc that when taken out of context could lead to a battle for their job. And given laws in MA, if audio recording then did surface, it’d be tossed out of court, but it wouldn’t save their job.
Now, my question is did he approach the teacher saying he found it offensive? How about approaching administration? Not that cost seems to matter in all but time since each has their own pro bono lawyer, but this could have been solved outside the classroom. Their is a chain of command at all institutions, and following tends to lead to some pretty quick results without worrying about the judgments of total strangers factoring in, which could end up going either way since people seem to be so unpredictable.
Dan…
This is HIGH SCHOOL.. not college.
Here’s a thought.. why dont our teachers TEACH and keep the personal thoughts for other adults instead of a captive audience of teenagers.
Dan –
This is High School in California, not college in Massachusetts. I’m sure you understand the HUGE difference between the two.
Also, this wasn’t the first complaint filed by a student against this teacher. Other complaints went no where because the school and teacher’s union protected the teacher. This teacher runs the atheists club in the school and is notorious for making any student of religion feel like they are idiots just because they have faith. (that was all addressed in my first post on this – the very fist link in this article will get you to that article.)
Do you really think talking about viagra and cracking jokes about “stiff pants” is appropriate for a high school history class? Or discussing birth control for middle school girls? or, my favorite one, misrepresenting a historical figure in order to further a particular agenda or point of view? Are those appropriate? OR for that matter – be taken out of context somehow? Considering the entire classes were recorded……….not just sections.
You said: “Students of all ages try and get their teachers and professors off on tangents, and the more ridiculous the claim, typically the easier it is to make that happen.” Those teachers should be fired if they cannot take charge of the class and keep on the topic of the subject to be learned. By not being able to do this they are failing their students, school and society.
Val-
Considering I’ve had history classes where we’ve discussed the legitimacy of alien abductions for 20 minutes, discussed the connection of historical leaders sexcapades to their decisions, shortfallings, or murders, and yes, that did occasionally turn to talk of drugs like Viagra, yeah, I can see how it would happen in a high school. As for discussing birth control for middle school girls- if a portion of the course (like some of my high school history courses) involves part of the period discussing current events- absolutely. That was a story that we discussed in one of my history classes. On top of this, my teacher also constantly made fun of the French, though in a joking tone. One of his students has a french background, and so rather than simply get offended, it became a back and forth joke between the two. He also made regular commentary on some of the ridiculous aspects of faiths, from sacrifices, combat methods, etc, and not once was I offended. I am more often offended by the statements of my own friends than any teacher. If you think high school students really learn their political views or outlooks, or are vulnerable to indoctrination of some kind, I really don’t think you’re giving them enough credit.
The situation should absolutely be addressed if a student feels offended or singled out. However doing it in this way is a bit absurd. The teacher should simply tone down the comments, make such comments less often, or provide some other avenue that will help solve the problem.
And, just to throw it out there, one of the teachers this happened the most with was the one I learned the most from, was a favorite of everyone who took him, is pursuing a doctorate in history, and is a former military serviceman (though he never admitted to us in which branch he served, he’s kept it a secret which has fascinated us. Our guess is still air force or air national guard).
As for being out of context, considering these are all block quotes, and not whole lectures, sure they could be out of context.
As for being the advisor to the atheist club, I’m not sure where that has any connection with the question at hand. Teachers are needed to oversee clubs, and they tend to be randomly assigned, assigned by seniority, or students approach a favorite teacher and ask them to do it.
Kristi-
You act like teenagers can’t discern between the two. Teenagers tend to be the most opinionated individuals- and that is what can make classes such as history, political process, etc so interesting. You get the ones who see Columbus as a plague on the Americas, and those who seem him as the romanticized explorer, and all those in between.
Teenagers are far from a captive audience. They engage teachers in debate, look for any short falling on the part of the teacher to try and cause debate or look more intelligent, etc. They don’t blindly accept the lessons, they constantly question what they are being told.
I have a teenage son.. I am well aware of how they are.
And most do not say a word.. they just think get me out of here…. I just want to get through this stupid class to graduate.
A history class in high school is NOT an elective.. they need it to graduate.
So yes.. its a captive audience with no where to go but put up with it.
Dan –
I put links in my articles for a reason. I also mentioned that if you want to see the quotes and comments I used as a whole to go to the links to see the court documentation. If you would do that, you will see that they are not taken out of context. They even transcribed a few of the comments made by the students.
The kid who is suing and the people who have listened to the tapes have said that this teacher would use up 1/2 to 3/4 of his class bashing religion, talking about sex (not pornographic), and a slew of other topics not related to the history lesson that day. If the topic of the day was how birth control affected the woman’s suffrage movement, then discussing birth control is appropriate. HOWEVER, he was saying that parents of girls who don’t want their kids on birth control are irresponsible and that he and the government know better. How in the heck is that taken out of context?
Seriously Dan – are you really this naive or do you just like to see us get riled up? A history class is not and never will be a place to discuss how many of the students can get pot easier than alcohol. Or that parents are irresponsible because they don’t want their children medicated without their knowledge. No matter how you want to spin it – the subject material is inappropriate for the class he is teaching.
Just because other teachers “do it” doesn’t mean it is right. A lot of the people I knew in college got into drugs – since they were all doing it did it make it right? Nope, it doesn’t. Making excuses for bad behavior is not the answer to education. Making teachers responsible for their actions is what should be done.
However, I know that this culture doesn’t like that big bad word – responsible – so I’m not really surprised that people are defending such horrible actions.
BTW – he teaches Advanced placement European History class.
OH – I also forgot to mention –
The first 9 points I make above on his comments were all said on one day. October 19, 2007.
Kristi-
It is if it’s AP European History. Completely an elective course.
And for the record Kristi, that whole but about I just need this to graduate depends on the class, the students interests, and how entertaining/interesting the teacher is. I am still a teenager Kristi, and I only graduate in June ‘08, and many of my friends have yet to graduate, I’m well aware of how high schoolers think.
Val-
I typically don’t have time to go through the links because I am constantly going between various places. However, after reading the lawsuit itself, the only major piece I found offensive was item f. Though I’m not sure where he got racism from on the boy scout bit, the rest of his argument was pretty valid.
As for medication without knowledge, yea, but the kid has their right to privacy too. I mean, my mother still tries to stay aware of my medical records, but there are absolutely things that my doctor knows she does not, and if any of these required medication, I’m more than capable of taking care of it myself. Ever since I was in middle school I’ve been given the prescriptions, not my parents. And once I was a teenager, my parents pretty much stopped coming into my meetings with my doctor. Kids can be far more responsible than anyone is really willing to give them all that much credit for. Yea, they need help and need to be looked after, but society now tends to baby them more and more, and it really gets on my nerves, especially when I had to deal with it.
And again, just because he’s teaching AP Euro doesn’t mean they dont discuss current events. Each of my history teachers allowed discussion of current events at the beginning of class, or when someone drew a connection from past events to what was happening. It keeps the class interesting and gets students to think outside the box and think analytically to draw connections. So yea, birth control could absolutely come up during the class. My own history class my senior or junior year discussed a similar, if not THE same case. As for pot, any idea whether this class was after a risk survey? Absolutely could come up then after a student alludes to it. Anything and everything can and does come up in a high school classroom.
As for the others do it so should you argument, yeah, it is false. But that isn’t the basis of my argument. The basis is that this IS the education system, so no one teacher should be singled out anymore than the rest with a lawsuit. And, again, you are in a PUBLIC forum, you’re going to be presented with ideas that make you uncomfortable or are controversial. Looking at some of the statements he was offended by he will not do well on a college campus where there are fellow students who will say far more offensive things just to be offensive, or where the campus newspaper may run an ad paid for by a holocaust denier.
And, then after all this, he STILL stayed in an ELECTIVE course. It isn’t required in the least for any school in the UC system or for graduation.
Dan –
Do me a huge favor. Print off what you just said and put it in a safe. When you are 30+ old I want you to go to that safe and read it.
You are a teenager, how do you know if teens are babied more now than what they used to be? Your descriptions of your medical care is far more relaxed than it was when I was a teen. My Mom HAD to be in the room for my first “female” exam. They had her leave for “the questions” but if she wasn’t in the room during the exam itself – I wouldn’t have had the exam. I think my generation was far more babied as teens than yours.
Teen girls are much more different in the medical realm than the boys. Not saying we are any worse or better – just saying there are for more complications for us. (You guys get certain complications later in life when ours complications are stopping.) Hormones can make a teen girl do wacky things. Suicide rates are higher now for teens girls while hormonal medications are higher for teen girls. Depression also has had a rise since hormonal medications have been handed out like candy. This isn’t an aspirin that the teacher wanted these girls to have without parental consent – this is a hormonal altering drug. It can be very dangerous for a developing body whether the liberals like it or not.
You mention that we should just sit back and let this happen. What do you think happens to the Christian who says the same kind of things of the Atheists? Do you truly believe that would be tolerated? There are two teachers in Florida that have been arrested and charged because they had the audacity to pray at a parental school function. And this guy gets away with telling kids to go sleep around and don’t worry about the consequences. Teachers are singled out ALL the time for doing stuff like this. It’s just if you have a cross necklace on you will get hammered. Preach about hedonism and you get a pass.
And I’ve got news for you – You have some really bad teachers if what you say is true. A European history teacher does not teach about current events such as pot, birth control and the boy scouts in America during European history class. You do notice that the word “modern” isn’t in the class title right? There is AP European history and there is AP European modern history. I looked it up to make sure my memory was correct. You can google it. Also, if you are in a college prep course study – European history is indeed a mandatory class in some states. I dont’ know about California though……
PLUS – I bet you Kristi’s son will agree with you on how teen’s think. We’ve already been there. We said the same thing. We believed the same thing. Now we laugh at ourselves for being so self absorbed and ignorant of reality. Just wait, you’ll get there too. And then you’ll notice one of your favorite songs that you love right now will be changed into muzak!
I’m not saying it is tolerated, but to an extent I think it should be. But, since atheists are a smaller minority group, they get more concern when shouting about persecution, because it is legitimately easier for that to be the case.
“And this guy gets away with telling kids to go sleep around and don’t worry about the consequences.”
Want to tell me where he says that? I don’t get that impression from him at all.
As for Florida, they’ve always been a tad crazy and never really seem to know what to do about anything. In any case, I can honestly tell you there are prayer groups, bible groups, et al in public schools, but they are elective and extracurricular activity. The otherside of that, however, means the school has to be open to skeptic societies or atheist clubs, but the absence of these clubs means nothing other than lack of interest. Of course, I am in the most liberal state in the nation, or at least one of them.
As for AP Euro- on my AP exam I certainly had questions about “modern” European history, including an ESSAY question on Thatcher, which was a part of history we didnt focus on in review because, well, it’s modern. (Still managed to swing a 3 on the exam, woo!) As for no current events at all- why not? How does it not benefit students to link current events to those in the past? Or repetition of political and philosophical questions that have had various answers, or no answers throughout history? You may say my history teachers were “bad,” but all in all I earned something like 6 college level history credits from my participation in those classes, so the results seem to dictate otherwise seeing as how my score on the history exams (or higher) was the rule, and not the exception at my school.
And, for the record, there is only AP Euro, there is no AP Modern Euro. And, on top of that, AP is not required, it is an elective track/course to by definition.
(http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/subjects.html)
Ehh, i don’t expect any of the songs I like now to make it through the ages. None of the music recently has really been all that astounding.
As for being self absorbed, I really don’t think I am in the least. I like to think family and friends would agree with me, but ehh, who knows.
Jason Mraz
His music will go on…
I heart his music.
I will go sit in a corner now, and remember that I am old…
Dan –
“Want to tell me where he says that? I don’t get that impression from him at all. ”
I only linked to one of the court complaints. There are several years of complaints against him and I don’t have the time to link them all. I did put some of the stuff in my other post on this.
I’m not sure what part is really confusing you on this (not being rude, just honest). Are you trying to tell me that all your teachers take up 1/2 to 2/3 of your classes discussing their own personal views? Because, once again, that is what this teacher did. The tapes have proved this and the teacher has never denied it (as far as I know). His defense is that he did nothing wrong by making the Christians (or other religious) feel like they are stupid for their belief’s.
You are aware that colleges and high schools can have their own curriculum right? And that different states and different schools have different requirements? The webiste you linked to is generic at best. It is not the “rules”.
Yes, modern times are to be linked to the present. However, how is buying pot easier than buying alcohol for a minor on the streets of California relate to European history? How is the boy scouts being racists tie into Euro history? How is comparing praying to wanting the speghetti monster to help you supposed to fit in Euro history? Shall I continue? None of that relates – especially not his belief that Christian countries and area’s of the world are more violent. You will notice that the further away we move from our Christians values the more violent we become. And that is just on the streets – we won’t even go into the violence in schools.
Val, the website I linked to is all the AP classes offered, period, end of story. The college board sets the overarching curriculum for AP Classes to fall in line with colleges across the country so students can get college credit- that’s the whole reason behind AP classes. That website is the rules, otherwise it isn’t actually an AP course.
You can link just about anything if you try hard enough Val, so me linking it all isn’t really convincing. It really depends what happened in that class. To be honest, I’d actually be interested in hearing the tape, inflections, etc.
As for your last point- the jury is still out. Religion isn’t the only factor. As any statistician can tell you, correlation != causation.
As for personal views- yeah, it’s happened, and students share their own and we all go back and forth, make links, etc. In all honesty if you’re in a course where current events may be discussed or brought into the class, it only makes sense for that to happen. I’m not a fan of teachers being forced to hide their political views out of fear of lawsuits, whether it’s from the right or the left. I also think it’s one thing to share those views, make them apparent, teach, and have a meaningful dialogue, and quite another to shove them down the throats of students on tests and the like. What I was trying to get at before though, was that in high school many of my history professors set aside time specifically to discuss current events, to try and stop class from deviating later on, or in an attempt to link current events with the day’s lesson.